tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post9117182101208712666..comments2024-01-26T20:41:02.065+13:00Comments on Quote Unquote: What’s going wrong at the NZ Society of Authors?Stephen Stratfordhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comBlogger44125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-46757192198318385302017-07-08T00:15:51.371+12:002017-07-08T00:15:51.371+12:00Copywriting Services
Great Information.<a href="http://sharplinegraphics.com/copywriting-services-india/" rel="nofollow">Copywriting Services</a><br /><br />Great Information.Louis Martinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-50689120903008582542014-09-15T13:15:04.274+12:002014-09-15T13:15:04.274+12:00Hi, I stumbled across this blog from last year. Th...Hi, I stumbled across this blog from last year. The Society is now 'under new management'. I started as Chief Executive earlier this year and we are no longer offside with publishers, the ministry, Creative NZ or Booksellers NZ. Although that was an issue when I joined it’s in the past now. There's a change of Governance as well with Kyle Mewburn as president following the elections mentioned in Stephen’s blog which sparked all these comments. If anyone still has issues just call me and talk to me personally, I'm happy to listen and want make the Society the best it can be. Membership is strong, the professional development programmes are well regarded and advocacy continues... onwards and upwards. Jackie DennisJackie Dennisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-23955095750208901012013-05-27T16:50:56.509+12:002013-05-27T16:50:56.509+12:00"As for the 79 writers at the Auckland festiv..."As for the 79 writers at the Auckland festival who were reputedly not NZSA members - shame on them." <br /><br />This is the attitude of entitlement that puts non-writers off. Many writers, too. The argument is that because NZSA did great stuff some decades ago, every writer now should join it - the current edition of NZSA doesn't have to make itself attractive to them. <br /><br />But what's really odd, reading the comments above, is that no one has responded about the accounts, which seem to be in bad shape. Are writers really so careless about money? And no one seems in the least bit interested in PEN.Daphne Morannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-7734635536049250832013-05-23T18:52:59.713+12:002013-05-23T18:52:59.713+12:00There have been a couple of complaints about peopl...There have been a couple of complaints about people commenting anonymously (though it is apparently fine for Jenny Argante to accuse me of inaccuracies and when asked politely to provide evidence not to do so). The reason that so many people here are anonymous (honestly I have no idea who they are, I can match IP addresses so can see which Anon is which but can't be bothered - thing is there are very many) is that they are unwilling to get offside with head office. Several members have said to me privately that they comment here but can't be identified because they occasionally get a job from NZSA, mentoring, assessing, judging a competition, that sort of thing, and they think that if they publicly criticise NZSA they will never get a job again. I wish that people were confident enough to post under their own names - but it's not cowardice that stops them. Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-8828775382123110572013-05-23T17:37:32.821+12:002013-05-23T17:37:32.821+12:00'Anonymous' - when you have the courage of...'Anonymous' - when you have the courage of your convictions to say who you are, then your arguments might carry more weight. Stop hiding behind a tree and throwing darts. As far as IIML is concerned it is a matter of record that the institution has not become involved in any of the big issues that govern the welfare of the wider writing community. In any case, look up the definition of elitist and you'll see the glove fits fairly well.<br /><br />Stephen - the kind of attitudes you refer to in NZSA (or rather PEN) are surely ancient history. <br /><br />Neither of you address the main points I made.Philip Templenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-38004146281384049322013-05-23T16:02:47.005+12:002013-05-23T16:02:47.005+12:00I'm sorry to hear you were treated so, SS. App...I'm sorry to hear you were treated so, SS. Appalling and silly.<br /><br /> I think the internet has really democratised writing in both good and bad ways, but largely good. I also think C21st writers are more cross-genre than ever because they need to be to survive, also because the internet has made cross-genre opportunities more accessible, visible and viable. Also often web-writing is hard to pin down in terms of genre - a well-researched blog post can be of the same quality as an investigative journalism piece, for example.<br /><br />Thank you for opening up a space for this discussion. It needed to happen somewhere! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-72617758234995186872013-05-23T15:38:42.852+12:002013-05-23T15:38:42.852+12:00@Anonynmous 3.10pm, when I was invited to join the...@Anonynmous 3.10pm, when I was invited to join the NZSA 20something years ago it was a big deal, and flattering because of the PEN connection which hardly anyone talks about now but which is very important internationally (and which stalwarts like Philip Temple and Nelson Wattie have put so much time into). Michael Morrissey objected to my nomination - yes, you had to be nominated then - because I was only a journalist, though I had published a lot of stuff on NZ writers and, as Metro's lit. ed. had published a lot of NZ writers. Possibly not Michael. <br /><br />Some years later when I was appointed a judge of the book awards Tessa Duder kindly explained that many members were bothered by this because "You're not a proper writer." So yes, pot/kettle about elitism.Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-5205829713448193142013-05-23T15:10:54.597+12:002013-05-23T15:10:54.597+12:00"Elitist, self-interested attitudes, fostered..."Elitist, self-interested attitudes, fostered by such as the IIML...." <br /><br />This kind of divisive nonsense is why the NZSA is flailing. If NZSA is 'not a faceless bureacracy', neither is the IIML. I'm not an IIML student/writer but "some of my best friends are" (lol!) They are hard-working writers who love NZ literature and have the same 'catholic' tastes as anybody else. <br /><br />Also read the above comments about script-writers and copywriters not being 'real writers' - if that isn't elitist, I don't know what is... pot/kettle etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-89852023747003528712013-05-23T12:17:06.702+12:002013-05-23T12:17:06.702+12:00NZSA, like any other organisation is the sum of it...NZSA, like any other organisation is the sum of its parts, not some kind of faceless bureaucracy. It only works if its parts - its members - work at it. Resigning achieves nothing except selfish abandonment of a community that has been hard at work on behalf of writers for nearly 80 years. Without it there would be no PLR, no CLL, no engagement with the international PEN community, none of the hard groundwork put in for decent publishing contracts, no successful battles against the likes of the Google book agreement and so on and on and on. Yes, like every organisation, NZSA needs a bit of a rethink. I have been a member for 43 years and I have seen change occur at regular intervals, to meet new needs and demands. There is about to be a strategic review which will look at all the concerns that people have. Be part of that conversation and stop throwing rocks from the sidelines. As for the 79 writers at the Auckland festival who were reputedly not NZSA members - shame on them. They ride on the work and dedication of those in NZSA over decades who have actually assisted bringing about such festivals, book awards, fellowships both here and overseas etc... etc.. Elitist, self-interested attitudes, fostered by such as the IIML, do little to advance the cause of the writing community at large. Only NZSA/PEN has kept its eye on the big picture and tried to serve the needs of all writers. Don't try to re-invent the wheel, just strengthen and reform this one.Philip Templenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-27034052457881929412013-05-23T07:33:00.933+12:002013-05-23T07:33:00.933+12:00I fall into the 'younger' writer category....I fall into the 'younger' writer category. I joined NZSA not as a beginner, but around the time my first book came out, thinking it might benefit me to belong in terms of networking and getting my book out there. I gained nothing on either count from my two years of belonging. I felt the membership fee was far too high for what members receive from the society. I could not understand why they send out a paper newsletter (wrapped in non-biodegradable PLASTIC) when they could impart the same information for much less cost, more speed and less waste via a website. By the time the newsletter came out, it often seemed really out of date and the articles within were (apart from a few exceptions) not well-written or particularly useful. I remember one article about e-publishing which was surrounded by dark imagery of cracks and fissures and was written in a strange, alarmist tone and also seemed fairly out-of-touch. This seems to be a trope of NZSA - 'fear change, fear technology, be suspicious, publishers are our enemies'. <br /><br />I also wrote an email of objection when an NZSA writing competition was advertised where members had to PAY to enter - this is on top of the large membership fee! I protested, surely this was 'double-dipping' and surely there had to be SOME benefit to belonging to the society, like free entry to a writing competition? My objection was batted away and reframed as miserly-ness. Writers aren't miserly, we're just plain BROKE. <br /><br />A friend applied for the mentoring programme and ended up with a well-known writer as a mentor, while it started well, my friend quickly became aware that the 'mentor' was not entirely together mentally and ended up as a sort of peer counsellor for this writer in the most inappropriate of role-reversals. My friend eventually had to 'fire' the 'mentor' for the sake of their own wellbeing. <br /><br />The point where I entirely lost confidence was around the pre-planning for Frankfurt - the way NZSA wrote about being left out of the proceedings, the hustle to get themselves there, the quality of the ensuing NZSA stall....I then had a moment of clarity - 'the industry does not rate this organisation. They do not ACTUALLY represent writers, anymore.' <br /><br />I would like to be part of a body of writers (maybe including editors, designers and publishers - a united book-world organisation? for networking, debating, sharing ideas and opportunities) but I am clear that NZSA is not that body for now. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-64496447318288096512013-05-22T19:48:49.603+12:002013-05-22T19:48:49.603+12:00I agree, Anon @7.27. There does seem to be a view ...I agree, Anon @7.27. There does seem to be a view in NZSA that only fiction writers and poets really count. I have published 15 books that were commissioned, ie written to order, for money and to a word count but on the previous commenter's view that doesn't make me a genuine writer/author. And these people wonder why the young professionals can't see the point of joining, and why some of us older ones can't see the point of renewing.Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-47847478608289963152013-05-22T19:27:09.712+12:002013-05-22T19:27:09.712+12:00re: NZSA versus Writers Guild
What ridiculous, ol...re: NZSA versus Writers Guild<br /><br />What ridiculous, old-fashioned, misinformed snobbishness to suggest that people who write scripts are not 'real writers'. I'm not even a scriptwriter and that makes me MAD. <br /><br />Copy-writers are 'real' writers, too. And so are journalists. FFS, join the 21st century, NZSA.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-47100398034003863472013-05-22T15:23:41.276+12:002013-05-22T15:23:41.276+12:00"One out of eighty? That seems a bit high. Ar..."One out of eighty? That seems a bit high. Are you suggesting that we take the total number of members of NZSA and multiply that number by 80 to get the total number of authors out there? That would imply more than 30,000 authors in New Zealand."<br /><br />Not at all, it's just that apparently only one of the 80 NZ authors invited to appear at the AWRF was a member of NZSA - and 79 weren't. Raises some questions about representativeness, doesn't it? <br /><br />I don't follow your comments about the Writers Guild. The people I know who write plays don't see themselves as journalists or copywriters. I can almost see that applying to writers for, say, Shortland Street, though it's a bit sneery, but it doesn't apply at all to Roger Hall, Renee, Vincent O'Sullivan, Hone Kouka, Arthur Meek etc. They are not hacks. Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-39877927674940982432013-05-22T14:53:59.904+12:002013-05-22T14:53:59.904+12:00"Yes, Anonymous, one out of 80 does rather ma..."Yes, Anonymous, one out of 80 does rather make one wonder whether the NZSA does in fact represent NZ authors any more. Awkward."<br /><br />One out of eighty? That seems a bit high. Are you suggesting that we take the total number of members of NZSA and multiply that number by 80 to get the total number of authors out there? That would imply more than 30,000 authors in New Zealand.<br /><br />Are there really that many authors out there? Where does this number come from? Or have I missed something?<br /><br />On the issue of the Writer's Guild: Members of the Guild produce bespoke, fixed-length work to deadline. It is a totally different skillset to that of a poet or a children's book writer or an historian working on a magnum opus that has taken fifteen years to research. Writers Guild members can be unionised because there is a strict relationship between time, money and words delivered. They are in a similar category of writer to journalists, and for that matter, advertising copy writers because of the relationship between time, money and words.<br /><br />Authors by contrast, due to the diversity of their work, their needs and their interests, are like a clowder of cats. They are impossible to lump together in any other kind of organisation. And the nature of the beast is always going to be at odds with the world, purely because of disparate nature of the NZSA membership. The only way to change the nature of the beast is to homogenise its membership - and that is not going to happen any time soon.<br /><br />Because there is no clear relationship between the effort expended to write a book, and the material reward for doing so, NZSA members cannot be expected to all march to the same drum. And so, I contend, the organisation cannot march to the same drum as any other organistion. Someone may well try to force the organisation to amalgamate with another organisation, but mark my words, that too will alienate certain writers and cause them to go their own way. <br /><br />I'm not suggesting that the NZSA should not form strategic alliances. It should. It should also act in the best interests of its members; but those interests are really diverse. And that is why we need people to be active inside the organisation, instead of standing on the outside and shouting about how bad we on the inside, who are merely trying to do our best for everyone, are.<br /><br />But the winds of change are blowing as publishing becomes ever more egalitarian. There will always be content creators. Writers will always be around because each new generation always seeks new voices to express their hopes, dreams and frustrations.<br /><br />The same cannot be said for agents, publicists and publishers, who now have to evolve rapidly, because as Hunter S Thompson said:<br /><br />“A man who procrastinates in his choosing will inevitably have his choice made for him by circumstance.”<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-45034546299643587682013-05-21T15:06:36.440+12:002013-05-21T15:06:36.440+12:00Yes, Anonymous, one out of 80 does rather make one...Yes, Anonymous, one out of 80 does rather make one wonder whether the NZSA does in fact represent NZ authors any more. Awkward.Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-16449237866887257452013-05-21T10:20:57.127+12:002013-05-21T10:20:57.127+12:00It's probably not a bad time to be giving the ...It's probably not a bad time to be giving the NZSA a bit of a workout as to its role/job/reason for being. The history is fairly clear. It got whacked by hard nosed unionism lightly dressed up as free enterprise. That would be the literary agents whisking the cream away, representing them aggressively, fighting for good contracts, and making sure they were respected. <br /><br />Over on the other side of town the Writers Guild had the screen and scriptwriters sewn up. An overture from the Writers Guild to get a strategic alliance rolling with the NZSA got shot down at the NZSA end. <br /><br />The Writers Guild went on its way with its focus on a largely co-operative union stance, and lots of writer education. This seemed to leave the NZSA adrift in the middle, without a clear space to occupy.<br /><br />Meaning, this is probably a healthy if uncomfortable discussion for the NZSA, but a spot of re-targeting and, dare I say it, looking for ways to help grow the industry rather than being seen as endlessly adversarial mightn't be the worst thing ever. <br /> Denisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-36531852520800511282013-05-21T09:44:16.573+12:002013-05-21T09:44:16.573+12:00You can search the membership of NZSA here http://...You can search the membership of NZSA here http://www.authors.org.nz/afawcs0139044/Find-a-Writer.html Pick a few genres and you'll get picture. One NZSA member out of c. 80 leading NZ writers at AWRF is something. Same stats in book awards and other festivals?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-69093496080496691062013-05-20T14:44:11.514+12:002013-05-20T14:44:11.514+12:00Anonymous @10.39, true. Autres temps, autres moeur...Anonymous @10.39, true. Autres temps, autres moeurs.Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-67469724080961405132013-05-20T14:42:19.199+12:002013-05-20T14:42:19.199+12:00Anonymous @1.31pm, you may well be right, but how ...Anonymous @1.31pm, you may well be right, but how do you know? I don't usually know who is a member and who isn't. (Though if they are under 50 it's a pretty safe bet they aren't.)Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-22423618456218840232013-05-20T13:31:44.340+12:002013-05-20T13:31:44.340+12:00At the (record-breaking) Auckland Writers and Read...At the (record-breaking) Auckland Writers and Readers Festival over the weekend, among all the great local authors on the programme, there was just one single NZSA member.What is the relevance of this organisation? We need a voice for real writers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-55051838149735382752013-05-20T10:39:33.461+12:002013-05-20T10:39:33.461+12:00This wasn't happening when Liz Allen was runni...This wasn't happening when Liz Allen was running NZSA. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-54705459330922404332013-05-18T10:52:10.805+12:002013-05-18T10:52:10.805+12:00@Jenny, welcome to the discussion. It would be hel...@Jenny, welcome to the discussion. It would be helpful to readers if you could be specific about any facts I got wrong. <br /><br />As for people not putting their hands up, I was Auckland branch chair for several years, was on the national council for about seven, was national vice-president for a while, and was on the legal advisory committee for 18. I have served my time.<br /><br />I agree that “working productively with each other” is ideal. This is the criticism directed at NZSA, that it does not work productively with other sector groups. It’s not because of individual members or branches, but because of the mindset of the national body. This has changed in recent years, and doubtless it will change again one day, but right now it is unhealthy.Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-48767822514248866482013-05-18T10:24:21.581+12:002013-05-18T10:24:21.581+12:00@Authgor Keeping Her Head Down, send me an email a...@Authgor Keeping Her Head Down, send me an email and I'll pass it on. I's at [my first name] dot [my second name] at Xtra.Stephen Stratfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00426799380228308536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-67753527151083800472013-05-18T10:14:25.081+12:002013-05-18T10:14:25.081+12:00Well, Stephen Stratford didn't get all his fac...Well, Stephen Stratford didn't get all his facts right (not uncommon, I hear) but he has sparked off a lively discussion. However, that discussion could take place within the NZSA, and people who think things are 'wrong' seem to form a majority that will tell you what they think is wrong (and that needs to be based on accurate information and carefully thought out) and yet do not put their hands up to make the change. An organisation is only as good as its members' commitment and contributions. Yes, we're going through challenging times, and yes, we're all busy people - but my overall view of New Zealand publishing and bookselling is that it seems to have little time to nurture and foster a home-based industry. And someone rolling their eyes at a meeting does not match my own definition of professional behaviour. Only connect. Change comes on a personal level and from people's willingness to not only say what they think is going wrong but to put up their hands to do something about it. And is New Zealand big enough in terms of population, and reader and writers per capita of that population, to support another 'professional association for writers'? Why not improve those we've already got and ask them all to be open to working productively with each other? PS I hate anonymous entries, for whatever reason. Have the guts to stand up and be counted, right or wrong.Jenny Argantenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2131514811483888026.post-42426893652361678332013-05-17T20:11:23.801+12:002013-05-17T20:11:23.801+12:00"there is another conversation in Auckland ab..."there is another conversation in Auckland about setting up a loose organisation of writers and editors, perhaps designers."<br /><br />Stephen, this sounds good. Can you put me in touch with them?Author keeping her head downnoreply@blogger.com