The 41st in this occasional series of
reprints from Quote Unquote the
magazine is from the August 1993 issue. The portrait is by John McDermott.
The intro read:
Marilyn
Duckworth is one of our most important writers, yet her new novel Seeing Red has not been included in the
Top 20 of the Women’s Book Festival. It deals with an embarrassing subject in
Women’s Suffrage Year – female violence. Here she talks to Elizabeth
Knox about the background to her writing and the many traps and sudden
twists that imperil her characters.
SOCKING IT TO THEM
We get down to it in the study at the front
of the imposing, two-storey brick house Marilyn Duckworth shares with her
husband John Batstone. I’m on the couch with my back to the street, where she
likes to work, with the good light and all the distractions of traffic behind
her. Marilyn sits beside her laptop, which is crowded to the edge of the desk
by earlier, defunct computers and an old television. We both have our tape
recorders.
Marilyn wants to listen to the interview
and vet any errors or unwise confidences – a trick of politicians, she
explains. Her tape recorder wheedles away throughout the interview, recording
its own feedback so that, in the end, she can’t bear to listen to it.
So much for precautions. In a Duckworth
novel this would be a significant detail of the plot, one of those bits of
misfired planning that can determine the lives of her characters.
She was born in New Zealand but removed to
England as a three-year-old at the beginning of World War II. “War broke out
when we were on the boat. I was aware of the war, but much more of a measles
epidemic. The ship was divided by a rope. That was much more significant. I
remember being so hot with measles that I took off all my clothes and lay on
the lino floor.”
Her father, psychologist John Adcock, who
had gone ahead, sent a cable to his wife Irene, telling them all to get off the
ship at Cape Town and return home. England was too dangerous. But the radio
operator was talking to his girlfriend and missed a few cables, including this
one.
During the war, Marilyn and her older
sister Fleur spent longish periods separated from one or both parents. “We were
with relatives in Leicestershire, then to Wiltshire. I feel I’ve lived lots of
lives and several childhoods and instantly adapted. Take accents – in Wiltshire
I lived with a Welsh family and when I came back to my family no one could
understand what I was saying, My mother couldn’t. I said ‘Aye’ not ‘Yes’. Then
I went straight to Cockney. I remember an argument about whether it was all
right to say ‘isn’t’. I thought you had to say ‘ain’t’ or you were up
yourself.”
With all these moves Fleur and Marilyn were
thrown upon each other’s company. I ask her about their “imaginary game”.
Apparently she and her sister corresponded with someone “doing a thesis on
these things”: the Bronte sisters; A.S. Byatt and Margaret Drabble; the Adcock
sisters.
“We called it Dreamland. It was set in a
boarding school. I always wanted to go to boarding school. The classes were
named after birds – English birds of course – robins, cuckoos, starlings. There
were wicked teachers who we lampooned. And friends – because we shifted a lot
it was useful having these friends who were fixed. We went for escapades.
“I would always be most interested on going
to the Enchanted Forest, and doing very fairy-story things. Then Fleur, being
older than me, dragged in the idea of going to the Land of Happy Meetings,
where you met boyfriends. We got there by hooking our way through the trees
with long walking-sticks, like monkeys.”
Sometime during these years – the game
spanned the Adcocks’ “massive shift” back to New Zealand when Marilyn was 11 –
both sisters began to write. Marilyn planned and began writing her first novel A Gap In The Spectrum when pregnant with
her first child (after a very youthful marriage). There was an interval of over
five months when the manuscript went seamail to London and the publishers
looked it over. After it was accepted there was another year till publication.
Marilyn was 23 and a mother of two.
“Early success felt fantastic. I’d always
promised myself I’d get a novel published, but promising yourself and actually
finding it come true! It certainly made me feel a different sort of person.”
But since her publisher was on the other
side of the world there were no book launches and publishers’ lunches. “I
already knew some local poets but the novelists came later – though I knew Ian
Cross.” Duckworth frowns. “I remember Ian came around one night, we were having
a drink, he and my then husband Harry Duckworth, and Ian said to me that the
reason I wrote was because I was unfulfilled as a person. This upset me – would
he have said that if I were a man? I’d written two novels by then, the first
was out and the second was on its way.”
Duckworth’s third novel was produced in
difficult circumstances. She had a Literary Fund scholarship, so felt bound to
deliver. “I spent three months in Auckland writing
A
Barbarous Tongue. I got a job in the London Lending
Library and wrote at night. I found it was the only way I could do it. My
mother-in-law moved in and minded the kids. I could manage to write a novel
while I had a fulltime job – but with the children at home I couldn’t. I felt
torn two ways. In Auckland I felt guilty and missed the kids. There were times
when I’d ring up Wellington in the middle of the night – I had a key to the
shop, I’d let myself in and sob down the phone.”
The fourth novel before the gap in
Marilyn’s career (from 1969’s Over The
Fence Is Out to 1984’s Disorderly
Conduct) she wrote by swapping her children with those of an artist friend
so that both women secured one free day a week to work. “It was a really hard
way to do it and I don’t know how I could do it now. Well, no, I suppose I
became used to disciplining myself in that way.”
Duckworth’s use of “freetime” has been
further complicated since she developed narcolepsy in her 20s. If she didn’t
get a good 11 hours’ sleep each night she would quite literally fall asleep on
her feet, without warning, anywhere and any time.
Duckworth is now one of our established
writers, a position that entails various duties. She was one of the judges of
the 1992 New Zealand Book Awards, and didn’t feel entirely comfortable with the
experience. “I hated the responsibility of judging other writers. But acting as
a judge in competitions is part of the business of being a writer – like this
interview and getting up on panels – which is totally against a writer’s
personality often.
“The reason I started being a writer was I
wanted to do something on my own, and not have to fit in with others. I hated
group activities at school. Like reading in groups, I’d get terribly nervous
and start to cough, so that just as it was getting to my turn everyone would
start coughing.”
Seeing
Red is Duckworth’s 11th novel, a pithy book, set in
contemporary Wellington. It concerns two sisters: Isla, “La Stupenda”, a
lesbian, botanical gardener who nurses a very personal but hurtful secret; and
Vivienne, a divorced mother made redundant from her job by shonky financial
dealings. And, in significantly symmetrical contrast to the sisters, there is
an English couple, dubbed “the Burberries” after their coats – and also because
they are cloaked, in a way, and uncannily alike.
“I wanted an alien couple, locked into a
frozen existence, who could affect both sisters. Jake and Jennet needed to be
foreign to the sisters; that’s why I brought them from England, from a
different, a European, culture – also so there would be no witnesses to their
early lives.”
I point out that the author is a kind of
witness, as there is a small section early on in the book in which a child,
later identifiable as Jennet, refuses to swallow a worm tablet and renounces
God. Marilyn says she wanted that section to have a mythical feel to it.
“Jennet sees herself as something of a
witch, she wants power. Life became so intolerable when she was little that she
wants to be wicked. She’s abused and becomes a abuser.”
A different note enters Duckworth’s voice.
“You know Seeing Red hasn’t made it
on to the Women’s Book Festival Top 20. It’s been suggested – not too seriously
– that women’s violence isn’t an appropriate topic for Suffrage Year. I see
women’s anger as very much a feminist issue. If you start not talking about it,
then you’re creeping back to that silence that women have laboured under for
years.”
It is clear that Marilyn Duckworth doesn’t
think much of permissible politics and forbidden points of view. She is not,
however, a “political” novelist; or someone who, like Margaret Drabble, writes
“novels of ideas”. In Duckworth’s novels politics become a detail of private
life. Disorderly Conduct (joint
winner of the New Zealand Book Awards in 1985) is set during the 1981 Springbok
Tour; Message From Harpo has as its
backdrop public wrangling over the Homosexual Law Reform Bill of 1985; other
novels are concerned with the “spirit of the age”. Duckworth says she is
interested in how the ideas people have determine how they treat each other.
“When I bring in politics I’m never trying
to portray what is going on in the world, just what’s going on in these
people’s lives. I hope I also get across an attitude.”
Sometimes she has been accused of having
characters who are passive – specifically her women characters; the men, she is
told, are unreliable bastards. “I’m interested in human weakness – not
passivity, it can be the opposite. I do have women characters who are put-upon,
clumsy rather than weak. Of course there are different ways of being active and
what I’m writing about is surviving.
“I write about traps. Quite often the trap
is love, but not just romantic love; it can be siblings – it is in Seeing Red – or children and parents.
It’s not all about ‘marriage’. Too many people come out and say I write
disparagingly about marriage.”
I suggest that perhaps what these reviewers
are responding to is the way in which her characters often see themselves as
ordinary; that I think her fiction is about the oddity in ordinary people and
the odd lives that overtake people who expect things to be more ordinary. “Yes,
I like to twist things slightly, set up expectations then shatter them. When I
say I’m interested in human weakness, I want it to be seen that it’s equal
across the genders. That’s why I did Pulling
Faces through a man’s eyes. He was the one who felt put upon and who was
trying to get it right.
“And the title of Message From Harpo – the telegram Harpo sent in fact read ‘No
message’. When I’m writing I can’t have an audience in my head. If there was an
audience how could you possibly write without being self-conscious and
posturing?
“So far as style goes I don’t believe in
being distracting. I want people to puzzle a bit but I want a surface that’s
negotiable – where everything is accessible yet underneath this, subtle
vibrations are going on. I think the important thing is for people to read
what’s there and feel that even if it’s bizarre it’s somehow inevitable.”
Finally, I ask whether she has ever
considered writing an autobiography – those by Frame, Shadbolt and Edmond have
made these highly visible in the national literature. “No, not really. I have
a fantastic story to tell, but it’s full of unpublishable material. There are
too many people involved.”
“Too many young ones for you to outlive
them?”
“Yes. The only thing that would lead me to
write one would be if someone else was going to write a version that” – she
laughs – “conflicts with mine. I’m very concerned about truth – my version of
the truth.”